Hello, this is Laimonas interviewing Kashawar about his recent podcast for Zabam, his approach to digging for records, and how his journey through music has evolved over the years.

I really enjoyed your podcast for Zabam. What did you have in mind for this podcast?

‍This podcast was about blending the music I was buying when I first started collecting records. Some of the tracks in the mix are from when they were newly released, back when I was just getting into clubbing and buying records.
Actually, the first record in the mix is one of the first records I ever bought in a store in Würzburg. Now that the early 2000s sound is making a bit of a comeback, I started going through my collection and realised, “Oh, damn, I can actually play these again.” I noticed other DJs were playing this style too, which inspired me to bring this sound back into my sets.
I wanted to blend that nostalgic sound from when I first started with the music and what I’m currently digging. The idea was to create a journey, starting with some early 2000s electro-techno and minimalistic stuff, then moving towards a more straightforward techno, and finishing with Goa trance and Acid. It’s like a full package of where I started and where I am now. The mix is longer because I didn’t want to compress it into one hour; it needed a wider timeframe for the blend to feel smooth and natural.‍

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How long does it usually take you to prepare for a podcast like this, and what’s your process?

‍Months, honestly. I hate recording podcasts, so it took me a while because I wasn’t happy with the selection at first. I recorded it three times and even sent you one version before changing it up a bit.
If it doesn’t work out for me in one take, I get frustrated and stop. Sometimes I don’t record again for weeks or even months. I keep delaying it until I feel the pressure, then I’m like, “Okay, I need to record this.” So basically, I just wait until the right moment.

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So you wait until there’s no more time to overthink, and then you just go for it?

‍Yeah. This one was a bit different because I had a rough idea of what I wanted to play, but usually, I just play out of the bag and try to capture a natural feeling. If it sounds forced, I quit. But if everything clicks like waking up on a Sunday feeling good then I record it naturally.

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So you focus more on intuition than preparation and just go with the flow?

‍Exactly. If I prepare too much and it doesn’t work out, I feel stuck. In my previous podcasts, I just played what I liked at the moment, and usually, that works better for me.

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And how do you decide on the final version?‍

For this one, I recorded three versions and then chose the final one. There’s one little mixing mistake in this version that still bothers me, but I like the overall flow. I prefer a natural, raw feeling, even if it’s not perfectly polished. I don’t like it when a podcast sounds too perfect, like someone sat there and edited every transition. It should feel more like a live set.

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How often do you think DJs should record a podcast?‍

I think if you can consistently deliver interesting and high-quality music, then just do it whenever you want. I don’t believe in rules like releasing one or two podcasts per year to keep it “exclusive.” If you have good music to share, just release it. People love to listen to music.

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Can you tell me more about your roots and inspirations? How did it all start? You mentioned digging for records when you were younger, what was that like? How do you think music has evolved since then?‍

Well, I started clubbing relatively late. It wasn’t until I was around 17 or 18. Before that, I wasn’t interested in clubs at all. I was into skateboarding and didn’t care about techno. My brother was DJing at home and was influenced by events like Love Parade and Mayday, but I was more into hip-hop. I found the process of beat-making and mixing interesting, though. I started practising beat-matching, and mixing records was fun for me, even though I didn’t care about techno itself. It was more about the process and the beats.

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I was producing music even before I started clubbing, but to me, it wasn’t about making “techno,” it was just about making beats. Then, I started going to this legendary club called “Airport”, which has been around for over 30 years. It’s where I heard proper techno DJs for the first time, like Chris Liebing. Later, the minimal wave with labels like Perlon and DJs like Ricardo Villalobos had a big influence on me. That’s when I started buying records and going to record shops.

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We had a record shop in Würzburg, so I was going there often. I bought a lot from “Decks Records” because I didn’t have any shops like that living in the countryside. There’s no local scene or record shops here, so I always had to travel for records and for clubbing on weekends. I eventually met others who were also into music, and we started going to Frankfurt, to Robert Johnson. That was a turning point for me. I realised, “Oh shit, there’s a whole different level of music here.” It was unique and interesting. I think one of my first experiences at Robert Johnson was listening to Vera. I was impressed. Who’s this lady playing these fascinating records?

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Then, when I started my design job, my instructor at the company was an old-school clubber from the ‘90s who used to buy records but lost interest later on due to life changes, marriage, and all that. When he found out I was into this kind of music, he started educating me about older tracks. At that time, the digging scene wasn’t a thing yet. All the big-name DJs were playing minimal or Frankfurt tech-house music. But there was one DJ who stood out to me: Francesco Del Garda, and also Raresh. They were different. They were playing music that wasn’t like what everyone else was playing. Back then, DJs were mostly playing new records. It wasn’t considered cool to play old music. Everything was about the future, promos, and unreleased tracks. But Raresh was playing stuff that made me think, “What the fuck is this?” I later realised he was playing older music. It was the same with Francesco Del Garda, he was playing old records too. I think it was around 2008 or 2009 when I discovered them.

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My instructor at work started showing me all these tracks on YouTube Detroit stuff, Underground Resistance, Mosaic Records. I was like, “Oh shit, I recognise this track. Raresh plays this kind of music.” That’s when I understood they were playing old records. Then my instructor gave me his entire collection. He said, “I don’t need them anymore. They’re at my mum’s place. Come over this weekend and take them.” It was about 600 records of all the classic UK stuff from the early ‘90s, Detroit house, Chicago house, Detroit techno, and early Frankfurt labels like “Harthouse Records, “Ongaku”, “Klang”. It was like opening a whole new universe.

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Before that, I was just digging for new releases in record stores, buying whatever the owner recommended or what Richie Hawtin and Ricardo Villalobos were playing. But getting those old records made me curious. I started researching them, figuring out what they were and who made them. That’s when I discovered Discogs. I wanted to learn about Mosaic Records and artists like Steve O’Sullivan. That’s how I started digging on Discogs. Back then, nobody cared about old records. People just wanted to get rid of them. Some of the records that are super hyped and expensive now even from the big OG labels were selling for just a few euros.

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Many artists learn on their own, but some have mentors who show them ways to do things. Do you think young DJs today have the same mentality as you did when you were buying new records, or do you think access to information has changed things?

In the best-case scenario, you’re completely naive and just follow your own taste without trying to imitate anyone. Of course, I was inspired by people like Arpiar, Francesco, or Raresh, and I looked up to them, but I mostly found my way on my own. I was just buying whatever I liked. Then I suddenly had this big batch of old records in all kinds of styles, techno, house, everything. I started picking out what I liked and followed the path from there, digging deeper and deeper step by step. I think that’s the best way to build your own taste  by not copying others too much. That’s a big problem now because of the internet and social media. Everyone has access to YouTube or social media, and they see a DJ playing a certain record, the track ID gets shared, and suddenly everyone is buying the same record. People don’t develop their own taste anymore; they just copy what others are hyping.

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Yes, so it becomes authentic. You need to find your own combinations, build your collection, and create your narrative.

Exactly. It’s important to have some inspiration or to be inspired to break your own boundaries and discover more. But the best case is to ignore what’s happening around you and just develop your taste. Go out and explore. It’s also more fun that way. I don’t enjoy just copying a record someone else played. I want to find it myself. That way, you build a relationship with the record  you remember where you found it, how you discovered it. It becomes special.

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You mentioned before about buying records by the kilo. Can you tell me more about that?

Yeah, that was when I first discovered Discogs, and records were still cheap. I was hungry for music and for discovering new labels. I mentioned Mosaic Records earlier. Some of the records I got from that batch were from Mosaic, and they weren’t hyped or expensive at the time. Nobody cared about them.
I’d find a seller with a bunch of Mosaic records and buy all of them. Then I’d check out which artists released on Mosaic, find other labels they were on, and just keep going. Back then, you could buy 200 records for 200 euros. I was working at the time, didn’t depend on gigs, and didn’t play many shows. I was just buying records and collecting them for myself for years before I started playing gigs.

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I’d reach out to sellers and negotiate shipping deals. There was one seller, I think from the Netherlands or Belgium, who offered a flat-rate shipping deal for a 10-kilo package. So I’d just fill up a 10-kilo box with records, filtering for one-euro records and buying everything. At that time, Discogs was still new. Nobody was using it, except for a few collectors and nerds. DJs weren’t digging on Discogs yet. I was buying loads of records just to learn. Even if I bought 200 records and only found 20 or 30 amazing ones, the rest didn’t feel like a loss. That’s how I started building my collection. Of course, I also ended up with a lot of stuff I didn’t like or stuff that I didn’t appreciate back then but might like now. I sold a lot of it. At my peak, I think I had about 12,000 to 15,000 records in total. I didn’t regret it at first because there were so many records that I didn’t understand back then. But now my taste has developed, and I sometimes regret selling them.

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Now I see it as part of my personal development as a DJ. After 10 or 15 years, you can look back at your collection and see where you started, whether it was with “bad” music or cool music and where you are now. When you buy records for many years according to your own taste, you’ll always love them because they reflect your taste at that time.

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People sometimes get bored of their collection and decide to sell it, thinking they’ve outgrown it. But trust me, a few years later, they’ll think, “Damn, I had that one, and now I would play it again.” You never know what you’ll like in the future. Even now, I play records that I was once sick of or found boring. But now, I listen to them and think, “Hmm, not bad.” You always come back to certain records.

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And what do you think about digital DJing? Some DJs play only digital, while others mix vinyl and digital. Some people play both because not everyone can afford to collect vinyl.

Yeah, in some places, people don’t have access to vinyl, so they discover music online. Digital music has developed so much you have access to so much more information than I did back then. I had YouTube, but not every track was uploaded. On Discogs, you were buying records almost blindly. I’m definitely on Team Vinyl. For me, a DJ impresses me more if they play vinyl. For example, if I hear a DJ play sick music but it’s digital, I’m not as impressed. But if they play the same records on vinyl, I’m like, “What the hell? This is amazing.” It’s personal taste, but it feels more impressive because it’s harder to find great tracks on vinyl  especially if they’re hyped, expensive, or not easily accessible.

You can always find a way to get the digital version on Bandcamp, through a rip, or by trading with someone. But owning the vinyl is different; it’s more challenging. I respect the process, not just the music. Like, “Oh shit, they got that record?” And it’s even more impressive if they found it early before it became hyped. For me, a vinyl DJ will always impress me more. There’s a trend now with dubplates, people get rips of expensive records and press them as dubplates. But people who know can tell when it’s just a dubplate. It’s always nicer to have the original record and play it out.

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Who and what are your biggest influences in electronic music, both in terms of sound and philosophy?

Even though it’s not my taste anymore, Raresh is still one of the best DJs ever for me. It’s about how he plays the records, the energy, the super positive vibe. You see him playing, and he’s smiling, his attitude is great. He plays for the crowd, not for himself or to show off his digging skills. He can play in any situation in different locations, in different clubs, at different times. He can play a deep digging set that impresses every vinyl head, but he can also play at a big festival with more commercial tracks. That’s what makes a good DJ, someone who can adapt to any situation, put their ego aside, and play for the crowd to make people dance. There are DJs who play super obscure, deeply dug-out records that impress diggers but leave the dancefloor empty because the vibe isn’t right. It’s about knowing the right place and time. For deep digging, Francesco Del Garda influenced me for many years. Through him, I realised there were old records worth playing. Later on, Binh and Onur Özer were also big influences. I was inspired by the dark, mysterious atmosphere of the records they found. Onur, in particular, is a mixing boss. The way he mixes is so perfect it’s like he practises every day. I’ve never heard him mess up a mix.

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What advice would you give to a new DJ in 2025 who wants to start building a record collection?

Good luck. It’s too late, man. Seriously, though, it’s tough now. Digging is on a super high level, and everyone knows about Discogs and uses the app. Back then, only a few nerds were on Discogs, and the prices were low. Now, you can’t find 100 records for 100 euros anymore. The cheapest records are 3, 5, or even 8 euros. Sellers know there’s a digging culture, so they price obscure records higher now. There’s more competition because everyone is fishing in the same pool. You have to be fast, an unknown record today could be on YouTube and sell for 60 euros in two months. If you want to start digging now, you need a lot of money. It’s not like it used to be.

Don’t try to follow what DJ “X” is playing. Just go with your own feeling, discover your own taste, and find records that resonate with you. The best way to build your collection is to find a big seller, create a big want list, and just as importantly, build a “shit list.” I’ve been building my “shit list” for many years, and it has over 150,000 records on it. If I find a big seller, I can easily filter out all the records on my shit list, leaving me with a smaller pool to dig through. That makes the process much easier. For anyone starting out, don’t just dig for the good records do your homework. Discogs is a powerful tool. You can create lists, take notes, and check statistics. It has so much valuable information, so learn how to use it effectively. But most importantly, follow your taste and buy what you like.

And what about other platforms, like Bandcamp? Some people dig through Juno’s back catalogue and then head to Discogs.

Yeah, definitely. I’ve been using Juno for a long time. I’ll go through the entire catalogue methodically. I’ll make a plan, like, “Tomorrow, I’ll go through 2005 German tech house,” and then I’ll go label by label, making notes of where I stop and where to continue the next day. It’s a lot of work and very time-consuming.
Nowadays, you have to put in even more time and effort because records are expensive. You can’t just go on Discogs, find a big seller, and buy records by the kilo anymore. Now, you have to do your homework and build a system that makes digging efficient. Like you said, Juno’s back catalogue is a super useful tool. You can find sound files from the early 2000s.

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What are your top places to dig for music right now? Any physical stores or online spots you recommend?

I live in the countryside, so I don’t have access to many physical stores. It’s mostly Discogs for me. But when I’m travelling for gigs, I always ask the promoter about local record stores and try to visit them. I also look for collections on eBay or from sellers on Discogs who don’t seem too professional but have a big stock. I reach out to them and ask if I can come by and dig. I always tell them I’m interested in buying a lot, not just a few records. That way, they’re more open to letting me dig through their collection. I’ve also bought big parts of collections from people who weren’t active DJs anymore. I’d look up old-school DJs from my area who played back in the day but weren’t active anymore. I’d find them on Facebook and message them like, “Hey, you played at the Airport or this club back in the day. Do you still have your record collection? Are you interested in selling it?”

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You mentioned it is harder to be a good digger now because of the costs and competition, but easier to be a producer. Do you think the industry might shift to respect diggers more because of how challenging it is?‍

I never thought of it that way, but I definitely agree. Just because someone is a good producer with sick releases doesn’t mean they’re a good DJ. And not every producer knows how to rock a dancefloor. I think it’s important to focus on one thing. If you want to be a deep digger, go fully into that. If you want to produce and play live sets, then focus on production. Digging has become popular now, almost like a trend. When I started, digging wasn’t cool, it was just something you did. But now, everyone wants to be a digging DJ. Even people who aren’t DJs but are into music know about Discogs and buy records. Being a digging DJ, has almost become a brand. Everyone wants to be seen as the “Digging DJ.” It’s interesting to see how the culture has evolved.

If someone asks you for a track ID, do you share it, or do you think people should go through the process of finding it themselves?‍

It depends. If it’s just someone who likes music, I don’t mind sharing the ID. If they send me a message, I’ll tell them. But if I see that someone is just trying to collect IDs, maybe I’ll share once or twice, but if they keep asking, I stop replying. I’ve had people who just keep messaging me for IDs. At some point, I think, “Come on, man, go discover it yourself.”

Sometimes I just tell them the label or the artist and say, “Here’s the label, go find it. Go through the process and experience the joy of finding it yourself.”
For me, it’s boring if someone just tells me the ID. I don’t want to know  I want to find it myself and feel that excitement. There’s no pleasure in just copying and buying records that someone else told you about.

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Do you do any activities outside of music to clear your head?‍

I go skateboarding, and I live in the countryside, so I spend a lot of time in nature. I like going to the forest to pick mushrooms. Going to nature is a nice balance for me. It feels like digging and discovering too.

Thank you for this chat and mix!

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